The following is from Rick Archer’s interview with Louise Kay on July 18, 2020. Louise Kay describes her learning journey and how to become more and more grounded. My emphasis in italics.
23:40 >>Louise Kay: As…there was more awareness and more consciousness in the system, there was more awareness and more clear seeing of contractions in the body, and unconscious patterns that were playing out. And there was this real, like, single pointed attitude, or focus, that this is the path of truth, and this is what is required. And so every little thing that came up, like everything that triggered the system, was like it was used to deepen, and to surrender deeper. And as that was happening, a lot of integration and transformation was taking place. So that space in us kind of became more and more grounded. And the system started to integrate and become more clear. And, I mean, it’s still is, it’s still going on.
25:04 There’s a recognition that when we experience challenges in life, our mind tends to project that “Life’s not serving me or something is going wrong, or this shouldn’t be happening”, but really, life is supporting us, because when we zoom out from the limitations of that little mental box, and we’re able to understand the bigger picture that what’s happening is the unfolding of consciousness. Then, from that perspective, there’s a recognition that each challenge is like a mirror, or an opportunity for us to deepen in presence, and see something where maybe we’re acting out some unconscious pattern, or some unconscious behavior. There is a gift for us in every challenge if we have the eyes to see it.
27:12 …part of our spiritual maturing is when we give up that effort to control life, and manipulate life, and demant that life be a certain way, and give over that power to this divine intelligence, and it can run things, it can run the show much jmore efficiently than our mind.
29:05 …there’s a lot of fear getting triggered in the collective right now. And, oftentimes, when other people are experiencing challenging emotions, like they, they get, their systems gets overwhelmed by fear, or anxiety, or anger, or sadness. If we’re sensitive, and we’re able to feel them, it can feel uncomfortable in us, and so often the mind wants to change that inner experience and it says, “Oh, this doesn’t feel good. I don’t want to feel like this.” So, the way that I want to escape this feeling is by making “them” change. And then, we can try to convince them to behave differently, or try to fix them, or heal them, or change them some way. And really what that is, is just, an escapism from the experience of the now, and when we are able to fully surrender to our own inner experience, and open to what it touches in us, and we do feel other people when they’re in pain of another is to feel the pain of me because there is no other. It’s all me. And, then we can jus very gently, “Oh, there’s some contraction, there’s a tightness there, there’s anxiousness in the belly.” Be very gentle with that. Our system begins to hold a space of unconditional love for their system, and their system begins to feel seen and validated. And we don’t even have to say anything. It’s all taking place on the felt sense. So, their system can begin to open and relax, just from feeling the peace that’s emanated by us being deeply present and anchored in being.
32:39 …if we’re not happy because other people are suffering, then we are becoming part of the suffering. So, it’s not helping at all. So, the key is to dis-identify from the thoughts that are running in the mind. And, usually, the thoughts are something along the line of, “There’s so much suffering in this world. I can’t live with all this suffering. I need to fix the world. It shouldn’t be like this.” Some kind of negative thread running through it. And when we identify with that story, and believe it, then it, our system responds to that, and generates emotions of a matching vibration you could say, so we start to feel depressed and hopeless. When we begin to dis-identify from the thoughts and draw our attention back, and recognize that these are just thoughts passing through, and it’s got nothing to do with me. I am open space of awareness, and sensations are arising in the system, and we gently open to feeling and allowing the sensations, and we let go of any idea that anything needs to change or be different than it is, then instantly there’s peace. It’s only our idea that things should be like this, when we believe that, that we start to suffer. And when we’re at peace we start to contribute to the collective peace. … We begin to emanate a peace, and a joyfulness, aliveness, and others are affected by it.
35:08 …so it’s really about embodying the teachings and living it moment to moment, and regardless of circumstance or experiences, because inner peace is always accessible to us when we inquire into our deeper nature, that which is here before thought, or before any experience or before any sensation arises. Then there’s a shift in our attention, where we recognize there is this background stillness. And that its very nature is peace. And there is no separation between that and me, that’s what I am. And most of us just believe that we are the body, or the conceptual self, the story that we told about ourselves. And that causes us to suffer because we perceive reality through a filter of separation where there’s me and all the others. And with the simple shift there’s recognition that that’s not me, and I am this formless essence, this infinite spaciousness.
37:21 …if anybody really looks with fresh eyes, and honesty, they will discover the same thing, because it’s the same for all of us, that what is here is awareness perceiving. And the sounds are perceived, and we don’t need to try to hear sounds, it’s just happening all by itself. We can’t even stop hearing them. And images, colors, shapes, are perceived. And it’s the same thing we don’t need to try. It’s happening automatically. And this body is breathing. And it’s performing all kinds of intelligent functioning all by itself. So, some thoughts arise and pass through. So, everything is happening by itself. The intelligence of life is dancing, and awareness perceives that.
40:18 …I can just speak from personal experience. To me what seems to be the key component is a deep interest in awakening, and a willingness to give everything to that. Everything, like the willingness to die for that, that level of willingness, like, I want this more than anything else. And that often expresses itself in not a desire from the mind, but a longing from deep in the heart, like this longing for truth. And it’s almost like a yearning quality. And to feel that call to know oneself… And, I don’t think that can be manufactured. It’s like, it just comes if it comes when it’s the right moment. And to, practice as much as possible, living every single moment fully present, and just perceiving what’s here right now. So; the breath, the sounds, the images, and the thoughts. And whatever thought arises, not to take it as the truth. To allow the attention to rest as the silence, or the spaciousness, beyond thought. And to become aware of the inner body, and the sensations in the body, and whenever there’s a contraction or a tightness, to very gently bring the attention into the body, and just open to feeling it. And allowing it to be there, being present with it, that allows for the release of unprocessed emotions or blocked energies from the physical and energetic body. And to practice self inquiry, so to ask: “Who am I? What is it that’s perceiving? What is here when there is no thought? What is it that is aware? What is it that knows experience?” This kind of inquiry. So, kind of a combination of this.
44:04 …so when we start this practice of being aware of the energies is in the body and present in the body. Often we initially become aware of an underlying sense of anxiety, that something, that feels uncomfortable, and contraction, or tightness, in the system. And, when we become aware of it, it can feel worse than when we weren’t present in the body, but it was still there. It’s just we become more aware of it. And as we begin to consciously feel it our system opens up, and these energies begin to release, and usually they release in layers and the system has a natural intelligence. So, it kind-of knows how much it’s capable of processing at any given time, and it brings some up and then there will be a release, and then usually a period of integration… The system is processing and it’s preparing for the next deepening or the next level, which is bubbling up. And I often use this analogy with people… One of the focuses of the work I do with people is meeting these energies and allowing them to release from the system in a healthy, gentle, loving way. Because if we don’t know how to meet it, it can be really overwhelming. And I often talk about this analogy of a soda bottle, that if you shake it up, and then you take the lid off, it’s just gonna, so all this energy will just come out and overwhelm the system. When we’re in tune with the system and the body’s natural intelligence, we can turn the lid a little bit, and then some energy releases. And then we wait and turn it a little bit more and it releases in a healthy, gradual, natural way. So I tell people: Don’t be in a rush to get to that end point [of release]. It’s not about getting to the end point. When, I’m healed, or everything’s fixed or this energy is released, it’s that’s another trap of the mind that, I’m awakened when such and such happens. The recognition of our true nature is instantaneous when there’s that shift in the focus of attention to the background: Stillness, I am that, and there’s peace. And from there, we begin to include the sensations to allow for the integration and the release of trauma on the human level.
47:36 …my sense is that the formless and the form are both infinite in nature. And once we work through…the pain body, and that begins to dissolve, what happens as it’s dissolving is, it gets much easier to meet it, and to be present with the sensations, because it’s less intense, because the energy is dissolving. And our presence is deepening. So it just gets easier. And that’s a good thing, but as we move deeper in the system, we start to access ancestral traumas, and collective traumas. And even past life traumas can start to bubble up. So it’s better to change the way we relate with trauma, and enjoy it, and use it as a tool for deepening in presence, rather than trying to get rid of it and get to the end.
49:05 …to me our true nature is divine perfection. It’s all that is. It’s the formless essence that animates all form. And it’s oneness, it’s connected, it’s unconditional love, it’s peace, it’s beauty, and we’re also this temporary expression of form, which is imperfectly perfect. And there’s always room for improvement. We can always become kinder, more compassionate, more lvoing, more gentle on that level.
50:43 Awakening can happen anywhere, and in any situation. So, it’s more about our inner state of being, and, where, every single moment, wherever we are, whoever we’re with, whatever we’re doing, giving our attention to that. And the primary focus is within.
51:25 …it’s not that when we become fully present in this moment, and fully aware of our inner experience that we become like a zombie. Actually, we become much more efficient because our energy is not being wasted… It brings us fully present into the now. And, in that, we become connected to the universal intelligence. We become part of that unified field. So, it’s more important…
52:30 …because then our actions don’t come from the conditioned behaviors and the egoic self, but they’re born from a deeper wisdom. The words that we speak arise from the silence, and the actions that arise, are actions that are beneficial to the whole and are in harmony with that unified nature. So we contribute…positively to the collective field rather than creating more stress and chaos.
53:41 …if we pity someone, then usually there’s a story running in a mind… We’re perceiving this moment through a filter of that story. And we’re experiencing the other person as a concept, as a story in our mind… When we become deeper in presence, and we’re more in tune with this unified field, then we begin to feel from a deeper level… And, that opens us up to this flow of unconditional love. And the compassion is a result of this opening and relating on a deeper level rather than from the mental conceptual level where everything is perceived through filters of separation.
1:09:20 …one of the main messages…is that…we want to support you to get in touch with yourself, to…get in touch with your own inner knowing…
1:09:37 …to me…it feels more important that we…connect to our own inner knowing, and our own inner guidance.
1:10:29 …I always tell people like: No matter who it is that tells you something… your inner knowing comes first.
1:12:35 … It felt like the dedication of living fully present in the now, and meeting everything that came up, and… There were a lot of traumas in the system that came up, and a lot of releases happened, and a lot fo seeings of unconscious conditioning and behavioral patterns. So, as they were more seen they began to fall away. And as the energies were processed, the system started to open and a more higher consciousness began to move through.
1:16:25 …when we experience and perceive reality and relate with the world from the perspective of many-ness, we’re relating from a perspective ultimately of separation. And that sense of separation is painful for us on some level. There’s a deep sense, underlying, that something’s not quite right, something’s not quite fulfilled. And we often try to fill that hole, get that fulfillment through experiences, or waiting for something to happen in the future… And, that causes us to miss the beauty and the intimacy of this moment, and we never really experience a deep fulfillment or satisfaction because that’s just not possible from that perspective of separation. It’s fragmented. And so when we look deeper and we go beyond the physical reality and the conceptual sense of that individual self, and we open to the, what I call our true nature, which is our formless essence. This pure, open, space, of loving awareness that loves to dance and create, and express itself in form, then, that brings a…deep sense of fulfillment and inner peace, just in being and we don’t need anything outside to complete us or make us happy. Just in being itself there’s already a deep satisfaction. And… it’s not that the formless and the form are separate from each other. … There is no separation between them. The formless is the essence that animates the forms. And the form is temporary. So it’s born, and it dies, and the formless essence is unchanging. It’s infinite.
1:20:02 … most people have heard the analogy of the ocean. That, the waves arise, and it seems like the wave is somehow separate, but it’s made of the same water, and it’s born from the ocean and it lives its limited life, its expression of form, and it returns to the ocean.
1:22:13 …from the perspective of the formless, there is no duality, there is no right or wrong, but everything just is, And it’s the mind which perceives reality through these filters of dualism, and aggregates everything into right-wrong, spiritual-not spiritual, good-bad, desirable-undesirable, [but]…it’s important also that we don’t fall into the spiritual trap saying: Oh well, there is no right or wrong. So I can just do whatever I want. When we know ourselves as our true self, …any word that labels it…is insufficient. So, we can call it the true self. When we know ourselves as that, and the system is totally clear, that expresses through the system. Wisdom, peace, love, harmony, jusgt that’s its nature. So it doesn’t need to think like: Oh, is this the…right or wrong thing to do? It justs naturally contributes harmony. And it’s where we have these veils or filters of our conditioned behaviors or traumas that act like a wall or a blockage to that natural expression coming through, that caus us, as humans, to act out evil in the world. So, all that’s required really is for us to look at these veils or these filters and see where they are. How they’re playing themselves out. And as they’re seen, from the perspective of higher consciousness, they begin to dissolve and fall away, and so that natural expression that comes through becomes more and more purified.
1:24:48 >>Rick Archer: Good answer. The Tao Te Ching has this whole thing about how if everyone is society were in tune with the Tao, then you wouldn’t need these laws, because people would act spontaneously right, rightly, and not be harming each other in various ways. But it’s when the Tao is lost, and when very few people are in tune with it that you need structures of law and moral guidelines and so on and so forth in order for people not to make a big mess of things and harm each other.
1:27:20 …the problem can be that if the ego mind…infuses to the point where it says: Okay, I’ve got it, or I know. Then life can be shouting something at you, and still you won’t hear it. And it seems to me that there can be teachers or expressions of life that are very, very clear, and have beautiful gifts, and very clear pointings that are coming through. And, at the same time, there can be a huge distortion, or unconscious trauma, or something acting out that hasn’t been seen. So that’s why it’s so important that, as seekers,…to really be vigilant and discerning.
1:30:47 …if we need to make plans for the future, we can make the plans while staying fully present in the now. …our attention is fully present in the now, and we’re deeply connected. If there’s fear-based thought arising, then it’s great that you’re already aware of those fear-based thoughts. And it’s not necessarily that the best way to try to avoid them [is] by making plans, but simply observe them, and don’t give any power to them. So remember that those thoughts are not speaking the truth. And you see, if you make a plan to do something that’s coming from a fear of experiencing a fear, then life’s gonna reflect that back. And it’s not coming from your deeper truth. In order to allow the future to unfold from the expression of life, rather than the mind’s fear based ideas, we have to first be fully present, and also, aware of how it feels in the body, and we become like an empty vessel. And, life moves through us rather than us functioning from this mental level of: Oh, what if this happens in the future? Then maybe I should do this? And everything’s kind of logical, and analytical, and trying to avoid things, or manipulate and control life. When we give up al that, and we just be, then the desire of what we want to do in the future doesn’t come from the minds desire, but it comes from a deeper intuitive knowing. And, it’s like we’re operating and relating with life on a different level. So, the key is to not engage with those thoughts. And when you recognize them arising, bring your attention fully present in the moment. And notice how it feels in the body. Often, if there’s a repetitive thought pattern, then there’s an unprocessed energy or trauma on an energetic level that’s wanting some attention. So it’s good to ask: Okay, how does it feel in the body right now? And most of the time we become aware that there’s a contraction somewhere. And then we just be with that, and feel that, and give gentle loving attention to it. And as we give it that gentle loving attention it begins to soften and open, and that energy releases, and it stops producing those fear based thoughts. And it creates space in the system for that natural flow of life to express.
1:35:42 …it should be the same with any decision-making process. So if we try to make a decision based on the level of the mind, then the mind will rationalize and look at the information available, and make pros and cons. And it can be helpful, but there’s a way that we can access information on a deeper level, which, when we move from that place, and take action from that place, then it results in more flow, and coherence, and harmony in life. So, we become very still and open to the silence that’s here beyond the thought, beyond the mental noise, noticing the awareness in which the thoughts are arising and rest the attention there, and, kind of tune in, and allow the knowing to arise from there. And this is how we move through life so, life presents a situation and we can either react to that, if we’re functioning from the mind-level, or we can respond to it. If we’re connected, and in tune with this deeper wisdom, and when we’re responding to life, there’s nevery any stress or problems really. There’s just appropriate action that’s taken. These are the options. And this one feels right. And then we take action on it. And all of that energy that goes to: Oh, what shall I do, and…worrying, and fear. It’s just, it’s not necessary anymore.
1:38:43 It’s like the system is in a constant state of fight or flight mode, it’s in a constant state of stress, or anxiousness. Where’s the next hit from life gonna come from?
1:39:34 …when we’re surrendering fully to our true nature, what happens is the ego-mind doesn’t say: Okay, great idea. … It’s not gonna let you go that easy. And it’s fighting for its life, it’s fighting for control, it’s fighting to stay in charge. And, it’s saying: No you can’t trust that, that’s not safe. Stay here with me. I’ll keep you comfortable. It’s familiar. We know this, we’ve lived this together our whole life. I’m your best friend. And what’s required is in that moment when that fear arises, or that lack of trust, to surrender everything in that moment when that fear arises, or that lack of trust, to surrender everything in that moment, and open fully to that fear.
1:42:03 …it’s like one of the great spiritual paradoxes that there is nothing to do, you are already that. It is done. And at the same time, it, in time and space, this process happens. And there’s an unfolding, and there’s integration, and, for most people, even after there’s a direct experience of the true self or non-dual awakening, there’s a kind-of falling asleep again, and waking up, and a moving-shifting backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards, until we become more and more deeply anchored in this natural state of being.
1:47:14 I love the mystery and the magic of this universe and I love, not to know. And that’s part of the beauty of this dance of creation that it’s so immense, beyond what the mind can imagine it. If we even just try to comprehend with our mind the size of the known universe, and the billions of galaxies. To comprehend that is. It’s. There’s no words. And, there is such a beauty, and magic, in the mystery of everything. And to see life through these eyes. It brings life to life… To see the magic in every moment, and the beauty in even the most mundane things, the most everyday objects, the fact that we are alive, and experiencing this form. It’s incredible.
1:48:37 >>Rick Archer: That’s beautifully put. Have you written any books? … You might start collecting that stuff. You could turn it into a book.
1:50:09 …to experience that being from the perspective of the mind, is the most boring thing in the universe. It’s like, it’s torturous, but, to know oneself as that, and to be part of this unified field of intelligence, …it’s the most joyous experience.
1:51:54 …often when we have the experience of depression, there’s this idea that there’s something wrong with me now. I’m, I’m broken, I need fixing, somehow. I need to figure our how to feel differently, how to reject this experience that’s arising. I need to take pills, or change my diet, or do something. And if we do the opposite of that, and we very, very gently get curious about the experience and look closer at it, then, what we notice is probably there’s thought patterns and stories arising that are identified with which are of a negative nature. And, by watching them, by observing them, we’re able to dis-identify from those stories and recognize that…that’s the ego mind. It’s, it’s creating a sense of identity through perceiving reality in this way. And often it feels a distorted sense of pleasure by feeling suffering and like a victim. So we’re able then to dis-identify from the mental level of suffering. And look at what’s experienced in the body. How is it? How is depression experienced in the body? And, when we really look with curiosity, we’ll probably find that there’s like some pressure on the chest, or contraction in the belly. And rather than trying to get rid of that, and making it wrong, if we just very gently — “Ah, I see you, I feel you, and it’s okay that you’re here” — open up to it and let it be okay. Then, that sensation, which is labeled as depression, becomes the gateway for deepening into being, and accessing our natural state of joy.
1:54:57 …we first have to meet what Eckhart calls the pain body, and in meeting it and being present with it, we deepen in being because you have to be, you have to increase your level of presence in order to be able to meet those sensations because they can be intense, and they can be really unpleasant. …so you just meet what you can and be present with that you can consistently. Moment to moment. Opening to the inner experience. And as you do,…you’re able to meet more and more intensity of these energies.
1:56: 34 …it seems like it’s like an onion with these layers and layers. And, what I’m coming to dis-understand more and more in this work that I’m doing with people is that when you get to the core of it, we all seem to have pretty much the same core trauma, which is a deep sense of abandonment and feeling unloved or not worthy in some way.
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